men who don’t want children

Should she stand by her man who doesn’t want kids?

Sue Fagalde Lick advising childless women, birth control, changing their minds about kids, divorce, men who don't want children, should you stand by your man, women who want babies
 What is this, 1914?

 A reader asked me that the other day after I advised a childless woman to stick with the man she had rather than get divorced in her 40s in the hope of finding another guy with whom she could have children. I tried to explain that at her age, the odds of finding another Mr. Right and getting pregnant were lousy. She was not happy with my advice. 
I flip-flopped with the next commenter, who was in her early 30s. I told her to go for it.
 Today, I received a comment from a woman whose fiance of 13 years just told her he has decided he doesn’t want kids. I told her to keep talking.
You can read about all of this in “If You Disagree About Children, is Your Relationship Doomed?”
Nearly every day, I receive comments from people, mostly women, who don’t know what to do. Their mate is unable or unwilling to have children with them. They may have said they would be happy to have babies before, but now they don’t want to. Often there are stepchildren who make things more complicated. The couple either fights about it all the time or they can’t talk about it. What should they do?
Dear God, I wish I knew.
My friends, I am not the goddess of all wisdom. I wish I could solve your problems, but I’m human. My views are necessarily tainted by my own experiences and by the fact that I’m Catholic, white and was raised in California by traditional parents of western European heritage in the 1950s and ‘60s. I’m also very practical. I don’t believe in diving out of a boat where you might be unhappy but at least you won’t drown in the hope that another, more beautiful boat will happen along. I also believe that most of us are lucky to meet one perfect life partner in a lifetime. If this is old-fashioned, so be it.
When I was a kid, back in the pre-birth control days, couples who were unable to have children stuck together. Often they adopted, but not always. People who simply didn’t want children either didn’t get married or they sucked it up and had them anyway because if you were having sex it was a lot harder to avoid. It was also more difficult to get a divorce. Things seemed simpler. You fell in love, you got married, and you had babies. Were some people brutally unhappy, feeling totally trapped? I’m sure they were.
But it is not 1914 or even 1954. It’s a new century in which nearly anything is possible. With so many choices, it’s hard to know what to do. I need your help. Feel free to respond to comments at any of the posts here with your own advice and experiences. Together we’ll figure it out.

What Should This Childless Woman Do?

Sue Fagalde Lick 35 and childless, accepting childlessness, bad relationships, childlessness, men who don't want children

Dear friends, 
Every day I receive comments from readers about their childless situations. More than 230 people, mostly anonymous, have responded to a 2007 post titled “Are You Grieving Over Your Lack of Children?” It is the most popular post on this blog, and there’s an ocean of tears behind these comments. Sometimes the comments are so troubling I don’t know what to say, and I hate to see them buried in the comments of a seven-year-old post. Today I’m offering this comment and my response. I hope that you readers will chime in with your own experiences and advice.

Anonymous said…
I’ve just turned 35 and have been with my partner for 13 years. I always knew he didn’t want children, and I always said that I did (although in practice I feel like I’ve never really decided either way, because my opinion has never mattered). We talked about it, on and off, for years, never finding a solution to our different wishes, but staying together anyway.

Then last year I met a wonderful (but emotionally damaged) man who I fell in love with, much to my distress. I felt strongly that I wanted to have children with him (despite some really obvious, serious flaws in his suitability as a partner!) and although he says he couldn’t have a relationship with me while he’s so emotionally messed up, we did once have a quiet, nervous conversation about how we would both like to have children and… maybe… together.

I haven’t started a relationship with this man, although I still long to, however misguided I know it would be. But the feelings have overwhelmed me and the relationship I have with my partner. I’ve talked to my partner again this weekend about the long-term issues in our relationship, including children. He’s adamant he doesn’t want them and is prepared for me to leave him if I feel I have to. I’m left with trying to decide whether to stay in a good but definitely imperfect relationship with a man who I love, without children, forever, whether to leave him and pursue the man I know will break my heart, but who *might* just give me children in the meantime, or whether to give up on all of it and live in a little house on my own with a cat. I have time left, but not much, and the pressure is making me insane. If anyone has tips on making childlessness feel like your own decision… those would be very welcome.

June 15, 2014 at 3:33 PM

Sue Fagalde Licksaid…

Anonymous June 15, it sounds like the relationship you have and the one you are considering are both unhealthy and destined to give you lots of heartache. I know you want children, but I wouldn’t advise pursuing a relationship with a man who says himself that he’s too messed up just because you might have a child together. As for making childlessness feel like your own decision, you can’t force that. Either it is your decision or you do your best to accept that circumstances didn’t work out for you.
I’m feeling old and cranky this morning. Anybody else have more encouraging advice?

Dear readers, what do you think?

B is for Baby, the One You May Never Have

Sue Fagalde Lick childless by marriage, considering marriage, doomed relationship, he doesn't want children, men who don't want children, she doesn't want children
 Almost every day I receive a comments from readers whose problems are at the very heart of this blog. They are deep into a relationship where they disagree about having children and don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to tell them except that I’m sorry this is happening to them and that they have to decide which is more important to them, the man or woman they love or the babies they might never have if they stay together. It’s an awful decision, along the lines of would you rather be blind or deaf. Neither choice is good.
A post from last year titled, “If you Disagree About Children, is Your Relationship Doomed?” has drawn many of these comments. Click the link to read them all. Meanwhile, here are a few.
“My boyfriend and I have been together for six years and just recently discussed getting engaged within the year. I am 30 and he is 39 and has been married once before. I have never known that I definitely wanted to have kids, but just recently I have been feeling a stronger urge to seriously consider it. My boyfriend just told me that he 100% will not have kids and I need to seriously consider if that is okay with me because he is not “changing his mind.” He is the love of my life, and I would never consider not being with him, but to hear him so vehemently say no to kids made me a little depressed. I am hoping that maybe one day he will consider it or my recently budding baby fever will subside…”
“Hi, I am 42, my husband is 41. We’ve been married for just over five years. I have two grownup children aged 22 & 18 from a previous awful relationship. My husband and I had an incredible marriage. We never argued, always respected each other and loved each other very very deeply. Two months ago, he left me!! He does not want to be 60 and never have become a father. I understand how he feels, but he refuses to acknowledge how I feel. I was a teenage mum and have spent my entire adult life looking after kids, and he wants me to go right back to the beginning and start again. He can’t see what my problem is. He just says I don’t love him enough. If I did, I would make the sacrifice for him. He says that I have “rejected” him. Now I am completely devastated. I can’t eat, sleep and can hardly get up in the morning…”
“I am three weeks down the road of separating from my partner (37) of 4 1/2 years. When we first got together, we both wanted to get married and have four children. After a year we went overseas traveling and he starting saying he didn’t want children. I thought it was because we were traveling and with loads of people in their early 20s. But when we got back, he was still saying that he didn’t want children. I thought he just wasn’t ready, and we kept getting more fur children. Well, after I don’t know how many conversations, he admits that he doesn’t want to be like his dad. It was a look of surprise when it came out of his mouth. He didn’t and still doesn’t have a wonderful relationship with his dad. I just wish he could see himself through my eyes and what a brilliant father he would make. He is wonderful with his niece and nephews. And has so much to offer a child. I just want my life back! And the one we planned….”
 “Together seven years, married for one. He had two kids from his first marriage, I have zero from my first marriage. I have always always always wanted one of my own. I feel ‘broken’ or less whole thinking that he now doesn’t want to have one with me anymore. He said he is just done…”
I have a hard time knowing how to comfort these readers. I hope you can help me help them with your comments here or at the original post. Feel free to tell us about your own situation.
***
You might be wondering what the B is for Babies business is about. I am participating this month in the A-to-Z Blog Challenge. Every day except Sunday we will publish new blog posts inspired by the letters of the alphabet. Because I have several blogs, I’m going to make this like a progressive dinner or a scavenger hunt. The alphabet blogs will proceed from A to Z but will dance around among my newsletter (4/1 only) and Unleashed in Oregon, Childless by Marriage, and Writer Aid.More than 1,300 other bloggers have signed up for the challenge. Check out the list at kmdlifeisgood.blogspot.com/p/under-construction.html. You might find some great new blogs to follow. I know I will. Find out what C stands for tomorrow at Unleashed in Oregon.

Should you stay with the guy who doesn’t want kids?

Sue Fagalde Lick accidental pregnancy, birth control, men who don't want children, toxic relationships

In looking for what to write about today, I keep going back to the comment I received over the weekend on a post titled, “He said he didn’t want any more kids.” 

Anonymous said…  
My boyfriend and I have been dating for going on five years and he has said repeatedly that he does not want anymore kids. He has two kids from previous relationships and basically refuses to even talk about what would happen if we have an accidental pregnancy. I do understand where he is coming from. He lost his daughter in a horrendous and long custody battle after his divorce, and although we see his son on a regular basis, he simply doesn’t want anymore children. I very much want to be a mom at some point, and though I’m only 25 (he is 33), I know I want a child of my own, too. I love his kids, but it’s heartbreaking and makes me incredibly envious and even a smidge resentful. I have nightmares about being pregnant and him leaving me because of it. I’m terrified of the possibility of becoming pregnant because I love him more than anything and don’t want to lose him, but what if I do get pregnant even while on birth control? I want to know he won’t leave me in that circumstance, but he won’t give me any reassurance on the issue. Any advice would be appreciated!  

Oh boy. As I noted in my reply, my gut instinct is to tell her to get another boyfriend. If he would leave her if she got pregnant even by accident, come on, that’s not right. At least that’s my opinion.

I know what it’s like to be in a relationship that is not good in some ways but still feel like I would absolutely die if he left me. More than once. And you know what? Eventually these men dumped me. Maybe I was too clingy. Maybe I scared them with my dreams of marriage and children and a nice house in the suburbs. Maybe they were just jerks. I’m no expert on relationships, but it does seem to me that if you can’t discuss an issue as important as whether or not to have children, the relationship won’t last. Also, if this guy is so anti-children, why doesn’t he get a vasectomy so there won’t be any accidents?

I would love to hear other opinions on this situation. If you read the other comments on that post, you’ll see that this particular anonymous writer is not the only one struggling with this. It all comes back to the same question: Do you love this person so much that you’re willing to give up having children for him or her?

Please comment.

What If Your Mate Says No to Kids?

Sue Fagalde Lick childless by marriage, men who don't want children, talking about having kids

Last week, I wrote about how important it is to have The Conversation with our mates about whether or not we want to have children. It can be a tough conversation to have, especially for women. Sometimes men are like fish. We don’t want to speak too loudly for fear of scaring them away. I know that’s how it was with me. I lacked the self-esteem to say I wanted children and would do whatever it took to have them. With my first husband, by the time I found out he didn’t want to have children, our marriage was already going badly. It didn’t matter what I said; it wasn’t going to happen. But what if we had had that conversation before we got married? Maybe we would have avoided a troubled marriage.

With Fred, well, I suspect he was actually worth sacrificing children for. We had such a love, the kind they make movies about. He was the best husband a woman could want. He did not want to have more children, but I think if I really insisted that I had to have kids to be happy, he would have gone along with it. I didn’t insist. I just moped. I think part of me believed I had already lost my chance with my first marriage, and I was lucky just to have another husband. Also, to be honest, I wonder if my desire was not as strong as my desire to do other things in life, but I’ll never know. We avoided the conversation.

So what does one do if one’s mate says, “Absolutely not. I refuse to have children.” A lot of people who comment here are dealing with that problem right now. Do they push to the point of destroying the relationship? Do they risk abandoning the love they have in the hope of finding someone else who will welcome children? Do they give up their dream in order to stay together? How do you make such a decision?

I wish I had all the answers to these questions. We each have to find them for ourselves through soul-searching and prayer and being alert to those moments when everything becomes very clear.

What do you think? What do you do if he/she says, “No kids. No way.”

Childless women in pain

Sue Fagalde Lick childless women, infertility, men who don't want children

I had a great weekend, although I was strongly reminded of my childless status at a party where everyone was talking about their children and grandchildren. At such times, I can either smile and nod or hit the buffet table again. “Five grandkids, huh? And the new one is due in September? Nice.” You know how it goes. I’ve been dealing with it for years.

But some women are in the throes of such deep pain they don’t know what to do. I received messages from two such women this weekend.

The first is Jennifer, who writes:
“I’m now 37, husband is 40. We have been married for almost 13 years. I always wanted children. He wanted to wait. And wait. And wait. Finally, 3 years ago I ‘made’ him go to a fertility doctor with me. The doctor immediately thought it was me, put me on Clomid, etc. He tested my husband ‘just in case.’ On Halloween (my favorite holiday in the world, or it used to be)…I went for my checkup to see how the Clomid was working. He examined me, told me I was responding “wonderfully” and told me to have sex that weekend. I was SO thrilled!!!! Then, before he left, I asked him if he had the results of my husband’s exam. He looked worried, and said “I’ll be right back.” He came back a few minutes later, and simply said “There was a big problem. Your husband has no sperm.” I must have said “are you sure?” about ten times. I was shocked. He said, “Don’t worry, we can use donor sperm and you’ll be pregnant within a month or two.” My husband, however, did not want to use donor sperm. My husband doesn’t want to adopt. He’s happy with his life. He likes his job and has his stupid band. I, on the other hand, am miserable. I feel left out. I don’t have any friends anymore because all of my friends have children and that’s all they talk about. I don’t have family, so my having a child meant everything in the world to me. I feel so isolated and SO lonely…I honestly don’t know how I am going to survive another day let alone a lifetime. Do you have any words of wisdom for me? I’m sorry to bother you, but I’m at the end of my rope.” 😦

This morning, I got a message from Iris:
“I don’t know where to turn. I don’t know how to deal with the pain of
being childless. My heart never felt so broken. I am married now and
my husband has four children. None of those experiences were good. Now,
between layoffs, strikes, and circumstances, I think I will never have
children. I am 45 going on 46. If the window of opportunity is not
already closed, it is fast approaching. I don’t want to feel this
pain. I don’t want to be bitter. I don’t know what to do.”

Friends, we’re all in the same leaky boat. I think the hardest time to be childless is when you’re in your 30s and 40s and feel your chances slipping away. When you get older, I promise you will find ways to make peace with the situation. Meanwhile, I think it’s essential to talk first with your partner. Try to make him or her understand how you feel, how very important it is to have children NOW. I was guilty of not speaking up enough. I think if I had, I would have children now. If your mate will not listen, find someone else to talk to, a friend,a counselor, anyone who will listen. Don’t keep it bottled up. You also need to consider whether this partner is worth the sacrifice. If you had to choose between losing him or her and losing your potential children, which would you pick?

I welcome your comments and your advice.

—

Go, Melissa!

Sue Fagalde Lick giving up children for a man, men who don't want children, Thirtysomething

I have been watching reruns of the 1980s TV show “Thirtysomething”. It’s interesting to see how issues such as childlessness were treated 20 years ago. Some things have changed, but some have definitely stayed the same.

In one episode, “career gal” Elyn asked her motherly friend Hope if it would be terrible if she never had kids. She wasn’t sure she wanted them. Shocking disclosure. One might notice that she didn’t cozy up to Hope’s baby Janie.

Melissa, on the other hand, adored Janie and always had her in her arms. She ached for a child of her own and even suggested she might have one without a husband. Then along came the handsome Dr. Bob. Their romance developed quickly. He looked like “the one.” Melissa loved his daughter Robyn, played by a very young Kellie Martin. Eventually the subject of having children together came up. It was an awkward conversation, along the lines of: I know we’re not at that place yet, but hypothetically . . . , if, maybe, someday, how would you feel about having more children?

Alas, Dr. Bob had decided long ago that Robyn was more than enough. He did not want to go through that experience again.

Well, now what does Melissa do? At first she tries not to react, telling him and herself, it’s early, there’s time to change his mind. Still, he doesn’t seem to want to talk about it, and his response never varies: Robyn is enough for me. Maybe he’ll change his mind, Melissa persists. “No, he won’t!” I’m shouting at the TV. A man of Dr. Bob’s age who says he does not want children won’t change his mind.

Finally Melissa presses him again for a definite answer, and he gives it to her: no more kids. Her response is one of the best exit lines I have heard. “I think me and my eggs will be moving on.” And away she goes. I am so proud of her. Too many of us are so desperate for a man that we agree to give up children just to keep the man.

Not that Dr. Bob is a bad guy; he’s just the wrong guy for Melissa. Perhaps we should introduce him to Elyn.

Is he worth it?

Sue Fagalde Lick childless by marriage, men who don't want children, women who don't want children

By the time Fred let me know that he didn’t want any more children, I was in love with him and we were planning to get married. That left me with a difficult choice: stay with the man I loved or leave him in the hope I would find someone else who wanted children. I chose Fred.

It’s a terrible choice to have to make. I interviewed another woman last week who found herself in a similar predicament except that they were already married. At first, neither she nor her husband had much interest in having children. However, she gradually changed her mind. He didn’t. In fact, when she confessed her desire for babies, he stood firm, telling her that if she couldn’t live without being a mother, she would have to find someone else. She chose to stay with her husband. Not having children causes her great pain, but she’s certain she made the right decision.

Another woman told me she had left her home in another country to be with the man she loved. Only after she had said goodbye to home, family and job did he inform her that the daughter he had from a previous marriage was all the children he wanted. When I talked to her, she was still trying to decide what to do, knowing she was running out of time if she wanted to conceive a child.

Every woman I know who is childless by marriage has heard the suggestion that she forget her birth control accidentally on purpose and get pregnant. Once that happened, he would come around. But we all know that’s not necessarily true. Besides, how could you trick someone you love on a matter that is so important?

Women are not the only ones in this predicament. Sometimes it’s the man who wants children and finds that his wife/partner does not. So how do you decide? What do you think? Is it worth dropping an otherwise wonderful partner to look for someone who is willing to have children?

Another one of those books

Sue Fagalde Lick Barbara Jean Hicks, books, childfree, China Doll, infertility, men who don't want children

A friend recommended I read a novel called “China Doll” by Barbara Jean Hicks because it was about a woman who yearned for children falling in love with a man who didn’t want them. So I bought it. 77 cents for the used copy on Amazon.com, almost $4 for shipping. Setting aside the 1960s cover and the general corniness and predictability, plus the in-your-face fundamentalist religion, I’ve just got to say we’ve been duped again. By the final page, the woman has adopted a child, the man has fallen in love with both the child and the woman, and they get married and live happily ever after as a “real family.” It wasn’t all a lost cause because parts of it take place right here where I live, but that doesn’t fix things. I don’t know about you, but I’m sick of books where the woman who wants a baby gets a baby in the end.
There seem to be two kinds of books out there about childlessness: the “childfree” books that talk about how life is just fine without kids, and “the oh it hurts so much that I can’t have babies” books, which usually end happily in birth or adoption.
In real life, sometimes you want a baby, but you don’t get one, and you have to live with that fact. Has anyone out there ever read a book that told how it really is? That’s what I’m working on. Comments welcome.